tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post7543298108192927294..comments2024-03-17T05:16:39.717-07:00Comments on Anarch*ish*: Dear Comedians, And People Like Me Who Think They're Comedians: Please StopJonnieMarbleshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17058678021799029099noreply@blogger.comBlogger55125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-48129115731182263642022-04-24T22:36:46.191-07:002022-04-24T22:36:46.191-07:00Wow, such an awesome blog you have written there a...Wow, such an awesome blog you have written there and you and I get exactly what information I am looking for, in the third paragraph you put amazing effort to explain the theme of the content. 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Be that as it may, abruptly your printer has quit printing and showing some invalid error? At that point don't contemplate that as you are in good company who are confronting this issue as thousand of users face this issue in the wake of changing their ink. There could be various explanations for this issue of not imprinting on the Epson printer and you will should fix this issue quickly to return to finish your printing task. In this blog, you will effortlessly find out about the reasons and fixes for the not printing issue of the Epson printer in the wake of changing ink. <a href="https://1callassistant.com/fix-epson-printer-not-printing-issue/" rel="nofollow"> epson printer won't print</a>semsranyukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02043259574141519266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-1423577664208716732012-07-19T04:45:55.934-07:002012-07-19T04:45:55.934-07:00This is exactly what I wanted to say, expressed in...This is exactly what I wanted to say, expressed in a less angry and obtuse fashion. Thank you!JonnieMarbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058678021799029099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-63258612027501329342012-07-18T17:38:10.993-07:002012-07-18T17:38:10.993-07:00And PS - Thank you, thank you, thank you! Not onl...And PS - Thank you, thank you, thank you! Not only your blogpost, but your replies to comments here are so very wise and eloquently put. I"m glad I found your blog!DrunkBunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09283896207310201964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-65012978675135069972012-07-18T17:30:45.889-07:002012-07-18T17:30:45.889-07:00I will laugh at just about anything. And I do thi...I will laugh at just about anything. And I do think a carefully crafted joke can bring much-needed awareness to certain sensitive issues spanning all types of human tragedy.<br /><br />I think what makes rape jokes different for me is that rape is so accepted in our culture. Victims are treated as jokes themselves - accused of lying or deserving it. Rape is so accepted in our society that many studies have shown that men don't even recognize what is sexual assault. Men look to their peers to see if their behavior is accepted or not. Rape jokes in the vein told by Tosh (who I find hilarious even when he is offending me, most of the time) really do add to the culture that it's no big deal.<br /><br />It takes a lot to offend me, and I'm a huge fan of standup comedy and walking on the edge of good taste. However, I find nothing enjoyable about kicking someone when they're down. <br /><br />But the thing that most upsets me about this whole hoopla is the number of people who right away attacked those who expressed concern over Tosh's joke, screaming at how anyone who was upset by it should STFU and just horrible attacks. Basically, shut up, woman, you have no right to your thoughts and feelings. The whole tone was that women aren't people so why should they be able to have any feelings or opinions. And isn't that the kind of attitude that encourages violence in the first place?<br /><br />I would not tell a comedian to stop saying any joke. But I would implore any entertainer to at least listen to a viewpoint they might not have considered before. (True for all of us really.) Stop the defensiveness and at least consider another person's reaction. Comedians consider reactions all the time when it is laughs. How about considering other emotions they may invoke?<br /><br />I wish love to comedians, and love and healing to all victims of sexual assault.DrunkBunnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09283896207310201964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-45309594854756025202012-07-15T21:04:23.836-07:002012-07-15T21:04:23.836-07:00It's really great that you can use humour to w...It's really great that you can use humour to work through your experience. If this was how it worked for most survivors, there wouldn't be a problem. But what I'm hearing is that this trivialisation is having the opposite effect for the majority. <br /><br />I guess the question is: is the healing power of listening to an open mic comic make a cheap rape gag worth potentially triggering and traumatising dozens of other people?<br /><br />Also, when I say that these jokes promote rape culture, I don't mean they turn people who'd never have thought about rape into rapists. I mean they make it easier for rapists to get away with it (by discouraging survivors from reporting) and make them feel more comfortable and confident that doing what they're doing is fine.<br /><br />I've had a few people suggest humour as a way of dealing with trauma and I think that needs to be an option. But I can't see an easy way of doing it that doesn't put others in danger.JonnieMarbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058678021799029099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-76737372235895964792012-07-15T15:49:17.298-07:002012-07-15T15:49:17.298-07:00Thank you, thank you, thank you. You've said e...Thank you, thank you, thank you. You've said everything I've been saying, but as a woman who isn't a comic (at least, not one on a stage), my voice isn't deemed very important. Thank you for using your position to say these things.Katihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15973623823527174280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-86020340725925823962012-07-14T05:42:06.574-07:002012-07-14T05:42:06.574-07:00So why did he apologise, together with a link to t...So why did he apologise, together with a link to the complainants blog post, if that was not what happened?<br /><br />"@danieltosh <br />daniel tosh<br />all the out of context misquotes aside, i'd like to sincerely apologize http://t.co/ptA7kJ2c"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-3443947571775236282012-07-14T04:58:41.598-07:002012-07-14T04:58:41.598-07:00Also:
Comedian Jim Norton made some great points ...Also:<br /><br />Comedian Jim Norton made some great points in an interview recently as well: "people are dumb and they think that laughing equals cosigning a belief in the ideology, which it doesn’t. It’s odd how when people go to watch a movie, and there’s a murder or a rape in the movie they don’t feel the need to stand up and tell the audience, “I don’t agree with murder and rape” you just kind of all go into it knowing “we’re watching a movie.” But when it comes to stand-up, people feel this need to voice their objection through groaning or being offended.<br /><br />Here’s what being offended is, it’s a phony sense of empowerment. People have lost this ability to go, “Wow, I didn’t like that, that bothered me. I won’t watch that again.” People have lost the ability to just not like something and walk away. People now feel that if they object to something, nobody else should enjoy it either. It’s because we’ve seen enough people say they’re sorry, we’ve seen enough people fired where people now feel that, “if I’m offended, I voice my offense, people have to listen to me.” It’s a really weird self-centered attention-seeking device people use. So I never buy the offense. … I think 90% of it is a lie. People say, “I don’t like stereotypes.” Bullshit. You don’t like negative stereotypes. People don’t mind positive stereotypes. People don’t mind positive assumptions. It’s only negative assumptions about them. So their outrage is so arbitrary. And I’m embarrassed for us as a free society that we actually want people punished for saying things we don’t like."<br /><br />And this classic Bill Cosby quote: “Through humor, you can soften some of the worst blows that life delivers. And once you find laughter, no matter how painful your situation might be, you can survive it.”<br /><br />And to all those saying, "But you missed the point! The point is that rape jokes promote rape culture!" - not true. Nobody is going to watch a comedian then think "You know what I could go for right now? Some rape". If someone is that fucked up they were going to commit those horrific acts regardless. If you want to get offended, look at Rush Limbaugh, who frequently slut shames and spews lots of other crap that he actually means and is suggesting. Words versus intent, people.nayonomahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08656334507232859983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-60762204094150026982012-07-14T04:48:47.345-07:002012-07-14T04:48:47.345-07:00If you weren't in the room, then you have NO r...If you weren't in the room, then you have NO right to make claims as to what was said or what happened. PERIOD. It absolutely TERRIFIES me that some fuckwit off the street can ANONYMOUSLY go online and post THEIR VERSION of an event, and immediately everyone gets so fucking riled up and pissed about it. Pick up your pitchforks and torches, kids, it's time to burn a witch. <br /><br />The biggest problem I have with people taking one side on it is that no recording of the incident exists so its all hearsay. <br /><br />I am a survivor of rape myself and I am far more offended by the people who tell me that I cannot find rape jokes funny, especially as a former victim, than the people who make the jokes. To me, a joke is a joke and I refuse to let it have power over me or make me feel afraid. I’ve had enough of that for a lifetime. That’s my coping mechanism.<br /><br />I am sensitive to the fact that those jokes CAN be hurtful to others and they can deal with it in their own way. I just resent the implication that if I laugh at a rape joke that something is wrong with the way I’m dealing with my own trauma.<br /><br />Just because you are a victim or survivor of rape does NOT mean you get to tell me how to handle MY trauma. It sucks that you are offended, and I'm sorry if dark humor is triggering for you. I hope you can find the help you need to heal and in the meantime avoid tasteless jokes. But to say that NO ONE should be able to make jokes about such a wretched subject takes away others' healing therapies. Making jokes is also called 'making light' of a situation because sometimes, there are events so fucking disgusting and horrible that they are too heavy of a burden to handle rationally. That's where absurdity, hyperbole, and sarcasm come into play. If you can find humor in the darkest of places to help lighten that load and heal, then I don't think anyone has the right to take that away from you. Nor should they want to.<br /><br />Another thing that upsets me is everyone going around adamantly shouting "Rape jokes are NEVER funny! NEVER FUNNY!" What they're missing is the end part...."to me." Just because rape jokes are never funny to YOU doesn't mean you get to silence one of my only forms of therapy, as fucked up as it may seem to you. If you don't like rape jokes, don't listen to them, and I'm sorry if an errant one finds it's way into your experience. But don't try to negate MY experience. If you want your opinion to be respected, you must respect that others have different opinions than yours (note that I did not say you have to respect their opinion, just that they might have a different one).<br /><br />Funny how no one is up in arms about the fact that the change.org petition against Tosh is listed as a "Women's Rights" issue, instead of a "Human Rights" issue. Oh wait, because only women get raped. And the 'rape culture' is only damaging to women. Because making banjo deliverance jokes and soap-dropping jokes are heeelarious. Just another hypocrisy. If you're going to be enraged, be equal-opportunity.<br /><br />If you are so deeply offended by rape jokes, you better be offended across the board - dead baby jokes, war jokes, holocaust jokes, race jokes. You're not? Why? Because the pain and trauma and aftermath of rape are SO much worse than having a baby die of SIDS, or seeing your buddy blown up in front of you, etc etc? Now's not the time to be picky-choosy. Saying that your trauma is so much worse than that of anyone else's is arrogant and shitty.<br /><br />Once you stop being able to joke about a subject, you give it more power by silencing it. Rape is not the new fucking Voldemort.nayonomahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08656334507232859983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-83598509748428562512012-07-13T04:08:39.543-07:002012-07-13T04:08:39.543-07:00You're right Sofie. That joke did suck. It was...You're right Sofie. That joke did suck. It was a cheap way of getting laughs during my first 6 months on the circuit. But as well as having low aesthetic value, it also had the potential to mentally drag people screaming back to one of their darkest moments, and give everyone else in the room the impression rape was something trivial.<br /><br />In the blog I cite a couple of examples of positive rape jokes. A couple was all I could find (no, I don't think Louis CK justifies it). You know what stops people from talking about rape? Rape jokes. The 99.99% of rape jokes that make absolutely no point whatsoever. Imagine if it became a real taboo to talk about rape on stage - in the same way it is to be racist now. Then when a comedian did talk about it, you'd know they'd put some thought into it, that they were going somewhere with it, that they couldn't just rely on the cheap laugh. When people do routines about race today they have to put some thought into it. I'd like the same to be true of routines about rape - there should be a big hurdle of justification you have to overcome before the audience will give you credit. That doesn't exist today. <br /><br />That said, even if it did, the hurdle would have to be pretty high. Your routine is going to have to be civilization-shatteringly awesome and culture changing before it justifies triggering people.JonnieMarbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058678021799029099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-52433552511421827682012-07-13T03:53:36.816-07:002012-07-13T03:53:36.816-07:00Thank you - you're right, not everyone who lau...Thank you - you're right, not everyone who laughs actually finds it funny. In fact one of the things I say to comedians when I talk to them about this is that the girl laughing on the front row might be doing it just to fit in and is secretly having a fucking horrible time. I hope this makes telling rape jokes a little less fun, when you have to look out at the audience and wonder who's faking it.JonnieMarbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058678021799029099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-15856069169801040032012-07-13T03:48:39.397-07:002012-07-13T03:48:39.397-07:00The Onion article certainly points its guns at the...The Onion article certainly points its guns at the right target, and it's trying to demonstrate a point about why actually making jokes about rape is a pretty shitty idea.<br /><br />I had a friend on the circuit who did pretty much the same thing - he has a routine about rape jokes that described a rape in more and more detail, until the whole audience felt pretty uncomfortable. On an artistic and satirical level it was, imho, a pretty good routine. It was also triggering as fuck. At least, I suppose, it made *everyone* feel uncomfortable, and therefore gave the people who normally laughed about/told those gags a taste of their own medicine. <br /><br />I don't know how survivors react to something like this - does it make it better that the jokes are anti-rape and anti- rape jokes? Or is it still just as triggering? I'm guessing that for some people at least it's the latter. In The Onion's defence, you'll have a pretty good idea of what the article is going to be like once you've read the headline, so can skip the rest of it (people listening to my friend's comedy routine didn't have that option unless they got up and left). On the other hand once you've read the headline you've read the headline, which could be triggering in itself.JonnieMarbleshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17058678021799029099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-34517924271565645982012-07-13T01:55:35.458-07:002012-07-13T01:55:35.458-07:00First of all, there are no people on the circuit w...First of all, there are no people on the circuit who find rape hilarious. That includes Daniel Tosh. There are, however, people who find rape-jokes hilarious, of which I am one. You are definitely crossing a line when claiming that liking rape-jokes is the same as liking rape. But you know what? I'm going to just let it go and in my head come to the rational conclusion that you are smart enough to know that - and calm myself down and not take offence.<br /><br />Thank you for attempting to make us all "get it". I know your intentions are good.<br /><br />Do you want to know why your rape-joke wasn't funny? A little hint: It has nothing to do with rape.<br />It's a simple pull-back-and-reveal. A decoy. A oopsie-so-I-meant-the-other-thing. You say that this is why it IS funny. It's not. It's easy and every single good comedian saw it coming. Just because it has the form of a joke, doesn't mean it's a joke.<br />You didn't have a point. You did not wake up one day, sit up straight in your bed and said to yourself: I must become a comedian, because I have to change the world by doing easy-written hack-rape-jokes.<br />It is the kind of joke you tell merely because it's techinally a joke, so you will get a laugh if the audience isn't picky. It's an open mic-set-closer. You have no point, no agenda, no moral, no nothing. It's you saying words to get a quick laugh.<br />Therefore it's not funny. Therefore it is offensive to rape-victims. And to everyone else listening. Stop wasting people's time like that.<br /><br />Now, there are a lot of comics (real comics) who actually touch the subject of rape and they do it perfectly. I have seen a bunch of (male) comics handle the topic with such care, that it made me proud to be from where I am from. <br /><br />And before that lady heckled Daniel Tosh at his show, he was talking about how there are horrible things in the world, but you can make fun of them - and if she hadn't interrupted it is very likely that he actually had a point in which she would agree. <br /><br />One of the commenters on this site thanked you on behalf of all women. I would like to unthank you, on behalf of me. "Stop telling rape jokes" is like saying "Stop talking about rape". Then why stop there? Stop talking about racism, stop talking about Holocaust, stop talking about slavery, stop talking about homosexuality. It may offend people, you know. These are things that must be talked about. Covered up in lovely little jokes so that people have a good time. If you stop talking about these things all together, you will end up in a world where it is taboo. And taboos kill more than anything. <br /><br />Now, what you really want to be saying is this:<br />Do not do a joke, unless you have some kind of thought behind it. A reason for doing it. You have to be able to justify your joke to anyone who feels offended - note that you shouldn't necessarily do this, you should just BE ABLE to. Otherwise you'll end up writing a whiny blog a few years later where you regret oh-so-deeply that you once made a terrible joke. Have a reason for being on stage, other than the fact that you're not able to brag to your friends that you're a stand-up-comedian. Have something to say.<br />Don't do easy pull-back-and-reveal-jokes. Don't do wordplay. Write proper jokes. <br />One-liner-comics can be amazing - and comics without thought behind as well. Jimmy Carr, Mitch Hedberg. But unless you're Jimmy Carr or Mitch Hedberg, don't do it. Very, very few can do this and make it work. <br /><br />What you really should be saying is: Stop doing comedy if you suck at it. If you suck, your mere presence on that stage is offensive to people who like to laugh. <br /><br />I'll happily be the first lady to stand up and yell, "YOU are never funny!" and then go home and write an angry blog ending with the sentence: Just please, please stop telling jokes.<br /><br />- Sofiexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15176699616800288439noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-13645241271631627092012-07-13T01:46:57.853-07:002012-07-13T01:46:57.853-07:00Thank you for writing this. There is something ver...Thank you for writing this. There is something very profound about having a male comedian write on this topic. I think it reaches farther than a hurt rape-survivor's take on it, unfortunately.<br /><br />I wanted to mention that just because people are laughing doesn't mean the comedian is funny. People laugh when they're uncomfortable, nervous, even angry, or just surrounded by other people who are laughing.<br /><br />I like the conversations going on here, and I really love this post. I think people, especially certain men sometimes, forget just how common rape is. There are stats that say it happens to 1 in 4 women, and there are even stats that say 1 in 3 women (in terms of sexual assault)... and I love what you said about putting a laugh track over somebody's worst memory. Yeah, you have the right to do that, but do you really want to?? I mean really? to a potential 1/6th or 1/8th of the room? Chances are the individual telling rape jokes like this has a mother, sister, daughter, or friend who has been raped. But it's likely also that these women might not be particularly comfortable sharing that intimate information with him because he's been telling his super-hilarious rape jokes around them. <br /><br />Anyways, love the way you wrote this. Thank you.ciaosophiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18399285960539938427noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-89405266812540569912012-07-12T21:34:58.215-07:002012-07-12T21:34:58.215-07:00Satire is a bit different from stand-up that's...Satire is a bit different from stand-up that's going for laughs. I don't think people were chuckling their way through Swift's A Modest Proposal, for example. In fact, they were likely sicken, much I was when I read The Onion's piece. Satire--real satire, not hipster BS satire--is considered humor, but not the "ha ha" kind of gag humor. It's going for a very different response and requires the satirist to genuinely know the subject she or he is satirizing of the whole satire falls apart. But clearly, as Jonnie Marbles points out, comedians don't need to know much about rape to make a ha-ha joke out of it to get cheap laughs.AC gemhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16719483794246038432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-89236111291170062582012-07-12T19:00:22.588-07:002012-07-12T19:00:22.588-07:00JM - what's your take on the Onion's story...JM - what's your take on the <a href="www.theonion.com/articles/daniel-tosh-chuckles-through-own-violent-rape,28769/" rel="nofollow">Onion's story</a> on this? I reckon it's horrible, visceral and could potentially be a trigger, but is *nonetheless* entirely appropriate as a way of confronting Tosh fans with the enormity (in the true sense of the word) of what he suggested.john bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13784096180652522939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-83189638547742686432012-07-12T18:11:25.246-07:002012-07-12T18:11:25.246-07:00@Alan
Interesting you don't think the backlash...@Alan<br />Interesting you don't think the backlash does something good, when clearly the author of this post benefitted by hearing someone complain about why this kind of humor sucks. Clearly speaking up makes a difference.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08183686721305419157noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-27022649147092022872012-07-12T17:07:41.675-07:002012-07-12T17:07:41.675-07:00Bookmarking in case I have to refer anyone to a fa...Bookmarking in case I have to refer anyone to a fantastic explanation of why appropriate self-censorship is not killing free speech. <br />Thanks for restoring my faith in humanity, which takes a lot of daily knocks here on the internet.Kathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12941613636154715271noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-6038346337038540502012-07-12T14:49:54.318-07:002012-07-12T14:49:54.318-07:00"What kind of fool accepts, without question,..."What kind of fool accepts, without question, the clearly biased view of one person's recall of an event?" Why, the kind YOU are, apparently!<br /><br />So the alleged victim is "clearly biased" in her recall, but the alleged perp -- the one who actually has something to gain/lose here -- is clearly not? Get a refund on those rational thinking lessons.Ivy Shootshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04340057355166930681noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-90557690347564163462012-07-12T13:10:34.964-07:002012-07-12T13:10:34.964-07:00Here here JMHere here JMRossyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13247045327845107590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2628767313281148956.post-51550830179097667542012-07-12T12:09:45.024-07:002012-07-12T12:09:45.024-07:00Thank you. So much.Thank you. So much.kellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08183686721305419157noreply@blogger.com